Can You Use Copper Pipe For Natural Gas
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Best pipe for natural gas lines: Copper vs. steel, plastic, CSST, etc.
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Current posting:
Oct 5, 2021
I am not a plumber, my only qualifications is a PhD in engineering & Physics and lots of DIY plumbing. I have used Cu pipage for Natural Gas with no problems in a decade. I take seen black iron pipage rust and leak, extremely dangerous. Even galvanized steel pipage is brusque lived in coastal and damp places.
Cu does terminal and in my view safer because it does not seem probable to fail catastrophically. Black fe pipe is but steel pipe painted blackness. Steel is short lived considering it contains carbon for added strength, and carbon accelerates rust. The quondam fourth dimension pure iron pipage lasted fashion longer but no one makes it. I suspect people are hanging on to steel pipe because it "USED" to final and maybe forgotten why. I dubiety if information technology is as safe as other forms of gas piping just, I for sure cannot be certain, I take non washed whatsoever scientific evaluation. Someone should.
John Davidson
Exercise it yourselfer - La Jolla, California
Closely related Q&A's, oldest offset:
2002
Q. I recently bought a dwelling house and almost immediately had a terrible gas leak. It turned out that the gas pipes for part of the heating system is copper and had corroded. I sympathise that copper pipes for carrying natural gas is non upward to code in California. Yet it appears that copper pipes for gas were immune at some point in time. Tin can anyone tell me how long ago Copper was considered OK for gas pipes. Also how long does it have for gas to corrode copper?
Seema Nanda
- Los Angeles, California
2002
A. Natural gas does not [itself actually] corrode annihilation, including copper. Corrosion is a chemical reaction betwixt metal and oxygen. It is the oxygen in the normal air that is mixed in with the gas that would cause whatsoever corrosion. The corrosion may also be accelerated by oestrus and moisture. Is it possible that humidity or water got into the pipage? I don't have the info on gas pipe specifications, distressing! I exercise highly recommend that you employ whatsoever material is electric current California code. Natural gas leaks are not something you desire to mess around with.
Tim Neveau
Rochester Hills, Michigan
February ix, 2022
A. As you know, the makeup of a natural gas piping system also contains a foul olfactory property to identify whatsoever leaks in a system.
This generally contains a small amount of methyl mercaptan.
This chemical contains sulfur and will react with the copper to form copper sulfide which will eventually corrode through the pipe
Mark Frister
Full general Contractor - Milwaukie
2003
A. I was a gas service representative for a few years and was instructed that natural gas in copper pipe over some period of years caused copper sulfites which clogged upwards the pipe with difficult, black crystallization. Reps regularly recommended customers switch to galvanized pipes when feasible and steel flex hose connections to gas shut off valves.
Mary Lou Bonilla
- Fresno, California
2004
A. I am employed in the plumbing manufacture, and nigh Natural Gas pipage is installed by plumbing contractors. It is my understanding that gas has no outcome on the copper pipe itself; the trouble is the way the pipage is joined. When the pipe is joined with apparently one-time solder that is used for water pipage, information technology will flake off and build upwardly causing problems. When installed correctly, using silver solder, flared joint and mechanical press joining, copper tin can exist the most economical mode to install gas pipe.
William J. Stanton
- Waukesha, Wisconsin
2004
My father was a licensed plumber and so a plumbing contractor for his whole life. He is probably rolling over in his grave at the fact that his son would even let someone post a recommendation hither that copper be used for natural gas :-)
I take no qualifications in the bailiwick myself, just my recollection of him fuming each time he saw it :-)
Ted Mooney , P.E. RET
Striving to alive Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Embankment, New Jersey
2005
A. LOL, hello guys I'thou a licensed pipefitter/plumber/gas technician , personally I've never seen a copper pipe beingness corroded by the gas itself. Corrosion is usually the cause of what's in the oxygen we exhale, and/or the mixture of unlike metallic fittings -- and to use copper tubing with just regular solder is totally forbidden here in Canada, only silver solder is permitted. And a service man must be pretty lazy to use copper tubing unless it was in an extremely confined space where steel pipage can't exist fitted.
Trex [terminal name deleted for privacy by Editor]
- Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
2007
Q. I have a remote camp in Maine, which is off-grid, and where I use LP for lighting, refrigeration, and kitchen range, and may expand to other uses every bit well. With the recent rising in the price of copper, our region has experienced increased theft of copper, and many camps have been raided for their copper tubing. My question is: What alternatives to copper tubing are in that location that are homeowner (do information technology yourself) friendly, that will remove the temptation of thieves from ripping out my gas lines?
Brian Athorp
- Dedham, Maine
2007
The only thing I see in my area is natural gas rather than LP, merely blackness atomic number 26 pipe is all I e'er meet in my home and the homes of family and friends, Brian. I suspect it'southward okay for LP, but I'1000 confident that there are codes you should check. Skilful luck.
Ted Mooney , P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Bailiwick of jersey
2007
Q. The gas line to my water heater is a copper tubing. A plumber told me that the additive put in natural gas corrodes the copper from the inside out. Since I don't know about copper, I had no reason non to believe him. I am wanting to know if this is true or non.
Gloria P
Gloria Plank
consumer - Pearland, Texas
Feb 11, 2008
A. I HAD A 1/four" COPPER GAS LINE FOR MY HEATER'Southward Pilot Light THAT FAILED WITH A Crack ALONG ITS LENGTH. THIS TUBE HAD NO SOLDER JOINTS, But COMPRESSION FITTINGS. MY PLUMBING CONTRACTOR SAID Information technology WAS DUE TO THE ODORANT ADDITIVE THAT IS PUT INTO THE NATURAL GAS. HE REPLACED IT WITH AN ALUMINUM TUBE.
JOE MEYER
- Agree, California
March 21, 2008
A. As an applications engineer in the metals industry, I know a footling bit near corrosion. Enough to be unsafe, anyway.
Natural gas on its own may not have a huge corrosive impact on copper. And copper is typically non corroded by oxygen due to its noble nature. What will corrode copper chop-chop is oxidizing or reducing sulfur environments. Sulfur is added to natural gas to give off the rotten egg smell to warn u.s.a. of leaks (without information technology, natural gas is actually odorless). This sulfur is probably what attacked your copper line.
The above is merely my approximate.
Alex Mak
- Vancouver, BC, Canada
December 29, 2008
A. Copper is ok, flare fittings are best.
Test with liquid soap or guess.
Black steel is best indoors merely no i wants to work anymore so they accept this new stuff called rails pipage.
Anthony Schiavone
- rye brook New York
Jan 30, 2009
A. Been installing h2o heaters for many years now. TRUST ME, Black IRON Piping or GALVANIZED ONLY for ANY gas line! That'southward it that's all! I could write pages and pages of why you lot shouldn't use anything but those 2 materials, merely won't. If yous want safety first, follow my years of experienced advice!
Kevin W
- Sunnyvale, California
June 27, 2009
A. Copper pipe, or tubing is NEVER Allowed BY Code IN THE US FOR NATURAL GAS DISTRIBUTION! There are diverse reasons for this which I'grand not going to fifty-fifty carp getting into because they are irrelevant. Lesser line is copper is NEVER Allowed By CODE IN THE United states FOR NATURAL GAS DISTRIBUTION!
It is very common to meet copper tubing used in rural areas for propane gas distribution. This is allowed. Propane and natural gas are two different gasses.
Steel pipage is allowed in residential and commercial construction within of buildings. There is straight burial plastic tubing types allowed outdoors, undercover. They must come out of the ground via a steel riser.
If you don't want to utilise rigid black steel or rigid galvanized steel, and go through the trouble of cutting and threading, there are different brands of flexible, stainless steel, plastic sheathed tubing (Ward-Flex is an case) that can be used, but this requires a license or permit to purchase in most areas.
Also, Bandage IRON fittings may NOT be used either for propane or natural gas. They are for steam plumbing fixtures and DWV (drain, waste or vent) installations. Malleable iron only!
If you lot have copper in your building used for natural gas, I strongly suggest replacing it ASAP!
Besides, if you live in an surface area where propane was used, and the public utility has extended their service area to include your home, before converting to NG, I would propose checking your system first to make sure a previous contractor has not plumbed your gas with copper. Information technology will need to be changed.
Scott McManus
- Binghamton, New York
November 17, 2009
A. This quote answers the question:
"Copper and copper alloy tube (except tin-lined copper tube) should not exist used if the gas contains more than than an average of 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulfide per 100 standard cubic feet (scf) of gas (0.7 mg/100 Fifty)." (copper.org)
For the most part the chemical added to make the gas smell is what corrodes the copper and not the natural gas itself. If your local gas supplier has reduced the additive to this corporeality or substituted sulfides for something else yous would be ok. But for rubber I'd suggest using blackness pipe for supply and coated flexline or flexible aluminium line for compression fittings.
Daniel Nonya
- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
December 17, 2009
A. I exercise not know the US Code, only the Code for natural gas in Canada is equally follows...
"Natural Gas can exist run with
-Copper tubing DESIGNATED and rated for natural gas by apply of flare fittings but
-Black iron piping schedule 40 or thicker with only black malleable fittings (NO GALVANIZED Piping OR FITTINGS Immune)
-Polyethylene pipe for underground installations merely
-Corrugated Stainless Steel Tubing CSST
-Steel tubing DESIGNATED and rated for natural gas by apply of flare fittings only"
Remember, the copper tube allowed in Canada must be the type rated for Natural Gas, regular retail stores do not carry this type of tubing, only HVAC suppliers have it.
Ronvall Lentin
- Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
January 24, 2010
! I'm a plumber (for 20 years). We install gas lines, only I don't know it all. Worse than not knowing it all, there is a lot of myth and hearsay amongst plumbers--especially Canadian plumbers--just kidding, co-worker is a chatty Northerner. Anyway, I've e'er heard that copper is not immune for gas distribution just I couldn't really remember why except for a faint recollection of it having something to do with an additive. It'due south in the plumbing code. You tin become away with it in some places but why try.
Unless you're like me and on a Sunday you decide to adjust the location of your pilot on your wall furnace considering the "the plumber" before you put information technology likewise far from the fire box hanging loosely in the air only supported by the ALUMINUM gas supply tube (ha! got yous guys! no one has mentioned aluminum even so take they!) to which the furnace airplane pilot is attached. So I grabbed it, move information technology, and it snapped (I'm more of a big pipe, new structure blazon of plumber guy). And then I'll use copper for a few days until I find a identify that sells i/4" aluminum tube that's open when I become off from work. I wasn't sure how long I could become away with it.
Thanks for the info everyone!
Robert Bustamante
- Los Angeles, California
March 14, 2010
Q. I am a Belongings Inspector and I remember reading about dissimilar metal connections in plumbing. I can't seem to discover materials on the impact this has on gas pipes but if the copper pipes are in contact with canvass metal that is used in ducting, especially if information technology is galvanized sheet metal, does anyone experience that this would crusade a galvanic reaction which would crusade it to corrode over time and somewhen leak.
I am very concerned about this and would like some opinions from gas fitters.
Mark Johnstone
- Vancouver BC Canada
March 18, 2010
Q. Does propane impairment copper pipe like natural gas? A boat surveyor said that propane damages copper pipe over fourth dimension, yet I don't see whatsoever sign of deterioration.
Thanks,
Dave
Dave Shively
boater - Aurora, Oregon
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Ed. note: Scott Chiliad claims in his entry of half-dozen/27/09, that copper is widely used for propane, and your boat is another example. Thread/topic 5892 claims the same.
October 18, 2010
Q. I have an older boiler that the pilot would not stay lit this year. Upon closer inspection I found the aluminum tubing had corroded in just one spot. It was touching the metal frame on the floor. I plant information technology when I lit the pilot and two other flames started nearby. After removing it most of the aluminum is in skilful status except where information technology touched the frame. Is this normal or what?
Dan Mates
- Kalamazoo, Michigan
October 25, 2010
A. For a less anecdotal and more applied science oriented response to the question go to COPPER.ORG and search 'natural gas'.
Ernie Ruda
- Atlanta Georgia
Oct 25, 2010
Hi, Ernie. Can you please point the states to a specific article or manufactures on that trade-group'due south site? I followed your education and was presented with a listing of 754 articles, the first few of which seemed to me to offering no sense of residual at all (which is probably to be expected from a trade group whose mission is to promote the use of copper). I agree that applied science oriented responses trump anecdotes, but to my mind neutral & impartial anecdotes trump one-sided sales literature :-)
Regards,
Ted Mooney , P.East.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
November 4, 2010
A. The following excerpt is from Copper.org, search 'natural gas", Fuel Gas Distribution Design Guide:
"CODES
Based on tests carried out by the Gas Inquiry Plant, and with more than 35 years of successful employ of copper by certain gas companies in the United States, major code bodies in the Us and Canada have approved copper tube for fuel gas systems. In 1989 in the USA, provisions for the apply of copper tube and copper blend fittings for interior distribution systems were incorporated in the National Fuel Gas Lawmaking (ANSI Z223.1/NFPA 54). Similar provision is fabricated in the Canadian certificate CAN/CGA-B149.1, Natural Gas Installation Lawmaking. Since then, at that place has been an increasing demand for data on this application. The National Fuel Gas Code also provides for the utilise of copper tube and copper blend fittings for undercover service lines from the principal to the meter."
Kevin Kiefer
- Marietta, Georgia, USA
July 21, 2011
! I am shocked at all of yous. To trust the safety of your lives and those surrounding you to the internet! I have seen manner also many "He said he knew how to exercise information technology"! In reading the answers to a higher place if I were a laymen I would be more than dislocated. Phone call a Professional person ... Codes change, what was deemed ok in the 60's is so far out of appointment.. example (flex lines were made from brass, aluminum etc., but are no longer used). Codes change due to research and well D-I-Y Boo Boo's and etc..
Please call a professional in your area for suggest and codes in your country or state or canton or OMG metropolis.
Tom Smith
apparatus service - Kingman, Arizona
July 21, 2011
Hi, Tom.
I certainly tin't argue with your communication in the abstract; the internet should be used only to assist find authoritative documents and to open minds to things that should exist considered. Trusting internet information is unsafe; someone could even claim to be a licensed professional, while actually being a hacker using a fictitious proper noun and up to no practiced. When sections of codes are quoted here, I would hope that people use those citations to notice those sections, not equally a substitute for looking at the lawmaking themselves.
My father was a chief plumber and I think the endless evening hours he spent practicing lead wiping and other skills for the easily-on examinations. It's easier these days, merely even today to get a master plumber in our expanse yet requires 8000 hours of OJT and 700 hours of classroom fourth dimension. Yep, master plumbers are professionals -- you don't take to sell me on that!
Just the reality of the situation is that I recently bought a gas dress dryer and a gas kitchen stove with "installation". The "installers" in both instances were big and potent -- an of import qualification for such work. But when I questioned them about the adaptors and flex connection gas lines they were putting in (with the same channel locks they used as hammers and for nuts and bolts) they were clueless most what they were doing. They didn't have the vaguest thought whether xanthous teflon record or pipe dope belonged or didn't belong on the gas line work they were doing. They also "installed" water line tubing with a hairline split in it to the icemaker on the refrigerator, causing a lot of water damage by the time the water leaked out from behind the cabinets. Thus there is value in a homeowner having some experience for what is correct and wrong...
Nosotros won't become master plumbers from 10 minutes of reading ... it takes 8700 hours. But it just might help spot dangerous piece of work by an unqualified installer -- which seems to exist almost of them when one buys an apparatus with installation service these days :-)
Thank you, and Regards,
Ted Mooney , P.Due east.
Striving to alive Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Bailiwick of jersey
August 9, 2011
A. Copper pipe, type L or K is allowed nether the Uniform Plumbing Code. Department 1209.5.2.3. Copper and brass pipe may exist used if the gas contains no more that an boilerplate of 0.3 grains of hydrogen sulfide per 100 scf of gas (0.vii mg/100L).
Nosotros use information technology in Seattle because our gas doesn't take that much HS. Your boondocks might. Yous'd better be sure. Lots of places are now allowing plastic PE pipe. The gas company here now sets all of its new lines in plastic. Professionals can purchase plastic PE pipe for light commercial and residential projects. Many rules surround how it can be installed though. Not something I would recommend for a DIY'er.
PJ Lewan
- Seattle, Washington, Usa
August 11, 2011
Q. I got to this thread in an try to find out why the flared copper tubing to my water heater is so pitted and why it is so full of black crystals that look like sand. Information technology is unfortunate that there are posts fabricated past people who would recommend using materials that I now know to be dangerous.
My water heater and my furnace are the ii gas appliances in my firm. The gas meter is right on the other side of the outside wall to my water heater. Fe piping runs from the meter for a few feet through the outside wall, then about ii anxiety of flared copper tubing goes to the water heater.
Later on replacing the water heater, I looked at the piping and was shocked at the extent of the pitting on both flares and on the inside of the pipe. The pitting is remarkable in the amount of expanse and its depth. I don't know when my water heater was installed, merely a sticker has an ANSI number that ends with "-1987". I presume, then, that the copper pipage was installed in the late 1980s; it is now 2011 as I postal service this.
One picture shows ane terminate of the flared copper tubing that went to my water heater. Notice that the pitting not only covers much of the flare surface and almost reaches the outside, just besides completely covers the inside of the pipe. The second picture is of *some* of the "sand" that was at the gas inlet of the h2o heater. I utilise the word "some" because there was a LOT more than in the adapter and considering the water tank had been dragged to my back k, laid on its side, and rolled effectually a fleck; I don't know if at that place was more than than this, just but roofing only one-half of the screen would seem to be an result to my layperson eyes.
The place that sold me the water heater said that copper is against lawmaking (at to the lowest degree where I live); I replaced it with yellow coated stainless steel flex line.
This thread fabricated me glad that I didn't call a "professional" to install the water heater - someone who might accept said, "trust me I've been doing this for forty years and copper cannot corrode."
Bob Owen
- Texarkana, Texas, United states of america
August 12, 2011
Readers: Is information technology possible that Bob's "black crystals / black sand" is activated carbon that is supposed to be in that location, held in place by the screen? Because that'south what it looks like to me, merely I wouldn't know whether gas appliances ever have activated carbon at the gas inlet for some reason.
Regards,
Ted Mooney , P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Baronial 12, 2011
Ted - there was much more than of the black stuff on the flare side of the adapter. I simply blew compressed air through that and the copper line before realizing merely how serious the problem was (no longer anything to photograph). It is uneven in consistency and doesn't look like something that was intended to be on either side of the adapter.
Bob Owen [returning]
- Texarkana, Texas USA
September 12, 2011
Q. I recently purchased a house, and upon moving in noticed the odor of natural gas. Afterward inspecting the appliances I noticed that the compression plumbing equipment on the water heater was damaged and the previous owner had wrapped electrical record around it!! The damage must have occurred after my inspection. Anyway, it was an old 1/four" copper line that snaked about 15' nether the block and beam house to a network of CPVC pipage. All the connections had yellow gum and seemed to be in good status. Am I sitting on a time flop? I'm looking at a considerable investment to replace all the runs with iron. Recommendations?
Travis Bour
- Montgomery, Texas Usa
February viii, 2012
Natural gas in some states has a high HYDROGEN SULFIDE content, and this is what corrodes and attacks the copper -- which is why it is probably illegal in California. The mercaptin additive for odor has goose egg to exercise with information technology.
Ryan Scott
- Edgewood, New Mexico, United states
February 29, 2012
Methanethiol (methyl mercaptan) is added to natural gas and LP to requite it a rotten cabbage aroma. It has an aroma threshold of equally low as 0.002 ppm. Its sole purpose is to allow people to detect a gas leak. Methyl mercaptan will react with copper pipe to produce copper sulfide, a black colored powder. Bated from the tedious corrosion seen with copper pipage the copper sulfide powder (flakes) can clog a pilot light orifice. I have seen many older homes with copper pipe used for gas. Information technology is my understanding that it is confronting lawmaking for natural gas in most states. However, considering the corporeality of methyl mercaptan is more than controlled in LP than NG it is acceptable to use for LP. Personally, I would and take used for LP for exterior lines but when information technology came into the house I switched to black iron pipe. In many older towns a wick in a jar of methyl mercaptan at points forth the gas distribution system is used to innovate the mercaptan into the gas. There is very fiddling control in how much mercaptan is in the natural gas. As a outcome the rate of copper pipe corrosion varies from system to organization. To be on the safety side use black iron pipe for natural gas.
Tom Mayer
- Cartersville, Georgia, USA
April vii, 2012
I read this whole thread with amusement. Here in the United kingdom of great britain and northern ireland within a property about the only sort of pipage that is used for natural gas is copper. If you take a actually former property (which means mostly ways pre WWII), and so you might have some iron piping if information technology has not been refurbished/updated in the acting but that is very rare.
Now what might actually corrode copper pipe is whatever gypsum based products. Consequently whatsoever copper pipe that passes through a wall or plaster must be sleeved with plastic or a wrapped in a special tape regardless of whether it carries water or gas. You tin fifty-fifty buy the pipe covered in plastic, and color coded in yellow for gas and white for central heating.
I guess if at that place was a actually high hydrogen sulfide content in the natural gas that might be a problem, though I would guess in California earthquakes are more likely to exist the reason for steel pipes over copper. Regardless, the feel in the U.Yard. would indicate that copper pipe and natural gas are not a problem corrosion wise. Plastic pipes are never permitted for gas inside a property equally a burn down would rapidly lead to an uncontrolled gas escape.
On the other hand browsing the web would signal that in general plumbing state side is very conservative. I saw an article about solder ring fittings for joining copper pipes from the mid 2000's and people worrying well-nigh how they would last; we have been using and then in the U.K. for over 50 years.
Jonathan Buzzard
- Dundee, United kingdom
May x, 2012
I can't believe the things I accept read on this post. Iron pipe is worse than copper as it requires a gasketing fabric to seal. I am a very highly qualified gas heating and plumbing engineer and take always used copper over iron unless there is a chance of vandalism or in case of emergency escape route for structural reasons, in which case normal preference is to weld steel. I have qualifications in air con, oil, lpg, ng, plumbing, disinfection, air source, footing source, pelting water harvesting. Countries vary but the United kingdom is very strict on regs as how many unvented tanks have blown up in the UK as opposed to America/Kingdom of spain.
chris spencer
- cleckheaton, yorkshire, england
May 10, 2012
Thank you, Jonathan. Thanks, Chris.
The constituents in natural gas as supplied by the utility may exist different in the Great britain than in the USA. Or homes may be synthetic differently. This thread does not prove that copper is "ameliorate" or atomic number 26 is "better", just I take found information technology quite illuminating.
The important thing is to comply with the local codes. Sometimes we don't know what thoughts were in the heads of the code-writers. After reading this whole thread I yet wonder whether some code-writers might possibly accept been concerned about hidden gas leaks being caused by people using an electrical saber saw on a plasterboard wall with a copper gas pipe curtained within it :-)
Regards,
Ted Mooney , P.Eastward.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pino Beach, New Jersey
March i, 2015
A. PG&E serves Northern & Key California. Copper service lines were installed in the 1940s and 1950s. A replacement program was completed in 2014 due to internal corrosion leaks and internal deposits which would block off flow. In the 1970s, PG&E servicemen were directed to supersede all copper flexible appliance connectors encountered, due to safety issues.
Don't install information technology, and take out what you have.
Sr. Gas Transmission & Distribution Pipeline Engineer, PE
Drew Kelly
- San Jose, California, USA
Feb 2015
Q. Thanks Drew! What are flex connectors fabricated of then -- they seem to be the only matter offered out here (although they have a yellow plastic covering on them and I don't know if they are made of stainless steel as Bob O suggests, or something else).
Regards,
Ted Mooney , P.East.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pino Beach, New Jersey
October 25, 2015
A. Very Interesting Cyberspace Conversation on Copper vs. Steel Pipe. Equally A Licensed Technician In Ontario Canada I am Familiar with the National and Local Codes and utilise all three materials depending on the job requirements. I carry Black Fe, Steel Pipage and Gas Copper in my Installation Vehicle.
In Canada and the United states of america the National Gas lawmaking Permits all 3 materials to be used: Gas Copper, Black Fe, Steel Pipe and CSST. All 3 must exist installed by a licensed Gas Technician belongings Certification in all 3 Materials. The Job Requirement, Piping Access, and in some cases Visual Appearance, determine the installation. In all cases the pipe should be installed past a Licensed Technician.
From the Internet comments hither, information technology appears that there are a lot of D-I-Ys giving advice that is Incorrect or Blatantly false or "Their Opinion". These are the facts here in Canada. Thanks for your time.
Martin Harrison
- Toronto Ontario Canada
October 2015
Thanks Martin. It's truthful that you see "opinion" hither, but Seema's question has been on line for 13 years and has been viewed by hundreds or thousands of qualified plumbers, pipefitters, and gas technicians -- and many accept responded with conflicting opinions.
Seema says copper piping was installed, presumably by licensed technicians, was presumably inspected by the proper regime, and yet failed. Seema believes that copper was in accord with before code, just non 2002 code -- yet per your posting information technology is possibly still okay. So is it okay, and was it ever okay? If so, why did it corrode and how long might it have taken? Is there any direction she should have? Is copper gas piping to a h2o heater appropriate despite the several bug reported hither? ... some things that are legal are yet not advisable based on frequency of problems, etc.
My own experience equally a fellow member of professional organizations & merchandise associations leads me to believe that the move abroad from black iron pipe, toward copper and plastic, was much more than probable a upshot of pressure from trade groups to reduce costs rather than a response to a record of safety problems with black iron pipe. After a decade and a half of postings, I don't think anyone has ever suggested whatever problem whatsoever with black iron pipe (merely that the labor toll is loftier), but delight right me if I'm reading it wrong :-)
Regards and thank you once more,
Ted Mooney , P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Embankment, New Jersey
Nov ix, 2016
I constitute this thread per chance on Google and enjoyed reading information technology. In my experience I accept personally changed quite a few copper gas lines to black atomic number 26 pipe during the tardily 1990's. The copper tubing was clearly pitted throughout its length and the wall thickness was noticeably thinner. I do non know from what chemical, I would guess sulphur compounds after reading this thread. LP is fine for copper tubing. Even to this day I come across welded schedule xl pipe for 3" and above and threaded black atomic number 26 for 2 1/2" and below on all natural gas lines.
John Richter
HVAC, TAB and Cx - Lancaster, Pennsylvania u.s.
Apr 25, 2016
Q. I AM STAYING Nearly SEWAGE Farm WHICH PASSES SULFUR Base of operations GAS WHICH CAUSES MY AIR CONDITIONER COPPER OR ALUMINA PIPE WHICH CARRY NITROGEN GAS TO LEAK AT JOINTS. HENCE There IS LOTS OF Bug MAINTAINING THE AIR CONDITIONING COMPONENTS. PLEASE Assistance ME BY NAMING WHICH OINTMENT OR Chemic I SHALL APPLY TO COPPER PIPE TO REDUCE MAINTENANCE Cost. THANKING YOU
SHAH PANKAJ
DALIA INSTITUTE OF STUDIES KANERA - AHMEDABAD, GUJRAT, Republic of india
February 5, 2017
A. Shah,
Perhaps one could prime number and paint the joints to protect from the environment.
Graham,
Tin you order black steel pipe instead? That is the material used in my expanse.
Blake Kneedler
Feather Hollow Eng. - Stockton, California
November 29, 2016
!! We bought an older home (1954), and got a new dryer. Visitor REFUSED to hook up due to copper tubing (like the kind used for a swamp cooler). I crawled under and repiped with black steel. The old copper was SO breakable information technology bankrupt apart as I removed information technology. Thank God they didn't install! Information technology was a disaster simply waiting to happen.
Alan Weinel
- Galt, California Usa
Jan 24, 2017
Q. It appears to be coming known in the UK that 'blackness powder' is responsible for the failure of Worcester Bosch domestic boilers. They recommend replacement of the copper gas supply pipe from the meter ... with new copper pipe! Just does the powder come from the iron mains supply? We but accept about a metre of pipe between the meter and banality, and it is simply seven years old. GJ
Graham Johnson
- Southampton, UK
Apr 3, 2017
Q. Following up my previous question, I accept had an analysis of the black powder.
copper - 550,000 mg/kg
sulphur - 106,000 mg/kg
iron - half dozen,790 mg/kg
Other elements were detected in much smaller quantities. It seems that the employ of mercaptans for odour leads to clogged filters and boiler shutdown in the U.k..
Graham Johnson [returning]
- Southampton, England, UK
June nine, 2017
! Those with an interest in this thread might find this article besides interesting .
Information technology basically acknowledges that an issue exists; but brushes information technology off (IMO) based on future sulfur content of the gas (installer must predict the future accurately); and a xx twelvemonth service lifetime.
I alive in a house that is over l years old; my father's firm is well over 100 years erstwhile. Having to re-plumb every 20 years strikes me equally absurd.
And the recent disaster in Flint, Michigan, USA shows how hard information technology is to predict the future when information technology comes to public utilities like gas or h2o. Don't forget, the water they were putting into the pipes was safe, the pb poisoning came from lead that the water leached out of the pipes! The lead pipes worked fine for 50 years or more; until someone inverse the content of the water being run through them. At that place is nothing that prevents that from happening with natural gas, either.
The above referenced article even acknowledges that 21,000 properties in Bang-up Uk have been afflicted by supplying loftier sulfur natural gas from the North Sea.
Randolf Younger
retired - Los Angeles, California, USA
June 2017
Thanks Randolf, excellent points! Copper.org claims that steel is 34% more than expensive ... simply it sounds to me like it'southward worth it.
Regards,
Ted Mooney , P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pino Beach, New Jersey
March 10, 2018
A. Late to the game here only I'm a licensed gasfitter in MN doing generally residential work and take never seen that kind of pitting on copper pipe. I run into just almost every bit many copper gas lines as black iron. Both are allowed past code here. Only to echo some of the others, the percentage of additives seems to exist college in some areas than others. And I'll reiterate as well: follow your local codes.
Luke Johnson
- Eden Prairie, Minnesota USA
May 25, 2018
A. Ok here it is. I practice this for a living in Texas. Copper tin can be used for ground lines although poly is improve and cheaper. Copper can be used inside simply black steel or galvanized is the norm. Copper cannot penetrate walls or concrete, it must be sleeved where information technology penetrates these areas. Steel nipples are usually used for these spots, but fifty-fifty steel nipples must be sleeved going through concrete. Must Have shutoff valves located inside 4' of appliance with approved flex lines. All copper must accept flared fittings or silver solder connections only.
ACRONYMS:
CSST = Corrugated stainless steel tubing
Best bet use steel inside, copper or poly for outside ground lines. CSST can be used within just not recommended due to all the lightning strikes popping holes in the lines during storms.
If information technology is used, I don't care what brand it is don't use it unless it's been properly grounded.
Rob Turner
Propane company - Pipage creek, Texas U.s.a.
June 2018
Thanks Rob. I knew nigh flexible gas lines existence used for appliances of course; only I had no thought (until I looked upwards CSST to better understand your posting) that houses were beingness built with corrugated tubing gas lines running through their attics.
The risks we take in the name of toll-cutting are horrifying; then an manufacture gets built upon the new technique, complete with lobbyists & lawyers, and presently fifty-fifty fire marshalls are plainly intimidated to silence. -- "Wish I didn't know at present what I didn't know then.", every bit Bob Seger tells u.s.a. :-)
https://world wide web.nbcdfw.com/investigations/Experts-Say-Flexible-Gas-Line-Lightning-Related-Fires-Go on-in-Spite-of-New-Safety-Measures-246966451.html
Regards,
Ted Mooney , P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
October 22, 2018
A. If you're going to use CSST (Corrugated Stainless Steel) flex piping for gas, you lot need to exist sure to bail it to your home'due south electrical grounding system via (minimum) #6 copper (solid is best... the shorter with fewer twists and turns the better).
In the result of a lightning strike on or near the habitation, you need to dissipate that massive energy into the earth. If you lot don't, that energy can arc between materials, possibly causing pinholes, fire, explosions, etc. Bad stuff. The bonding clamp should become on either the offset brass nut on the CSST - or right behind it on the black pipe right behind the transition. Be sure to clean the black pipe if you desire to put it there, you need a good connection.
BTW - I'm in the "Twin tiers" of N. PA / S. NY) and the local natural gas companies (and LP dealers) have used soft copper (flared fittings) for years. Underground ... pinnacle of ground ... in buildings ... you name it. They no longer practice this - but when I was coming up in the trades the "gas guy" (working for Due north Penn or NYSEG) would run soft copper right through the wall of the building if that'south all he had on the truck. Information technology was common local practice for decades. So it's not true that (paraphrasing) "copper is outlawed for gas distribution everywhere in the Usa". Simply non true. When in dubiousness - bank check with your local lawmaking authority.
Joe Stoddard
Mount Consulting Group - Corning, New York United states of america
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Can You Use Copper Pipe For Natural Gas,
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